Absolute gumby question

[Hazy1966]

Hi everyone,

First up disclaimer - I am an absolute gumby when it comes to this topic, am willing to say so and take advice accordingly. Creatine, whey, maybe beta alanine etc at times is all I have ever used.

I am 58 years old
185cm 75kg
about 15% bf

very dedicated trainer, gym savvy and aerobically fit.........well educated in gym routine and diet (from keto to IF to macro's / calories count) etc so all good there.

kind of lean most places but a lot of really stubborn saggy belly fat.

My goal is to get a ripped look all over without gaining much weight - bit of a body recomposition if you like!

My only research / feedback so far was a facebook American gentleman suggesting a Test / Deca / Dbol 12 week cycle but when I was looking for more information..... you know, the nuts and bolts of it all etc I got met with aggression and abuse for not buying straight away. I backed out of that "discussion group" quickly.

Looking for help and education / advice.

Cheers

 

[TeeGee]

Welcome to the forum mate. There are no stupid questions here. We have all been in similar positions at some point in time.

If your goal is to be ripped/shredded while not gaining too much size/weight. I would certainly state that dbol and or deca is not what you will want to be using at all as both of these help with water retention and putting on size.

There will be different opinions on this matter.

Firstly you could simply run clenbuterol on its own without the steroids.

Or you could use fast ester steroids. Test propionate with some masteron propionate and winstrol to have lean gains whilst draining water retention.

All depends on your knowledge and experience with PEDs but I can assure you that the guys will chime in with their opinions and all of them will be helpful as there’s a lot of ways to go about it.

But most importantly being shredded is more about your diet.

All the best

 

[Hazy1966]

Thanks TeeGee, I have absolutely zero knowledge and experience with PED's. Know nothing of Deca, Dbol, fast ester, masteron etc but also have no issues admitting such and asking questions.

Looking forward to the education and opinions

 

[TeeGee]

Thanks TeeGee, I have absolutely zero knowledge and experience with PED's. Know nothing of Deca, Dbol, fast ester, masteron etc but also have no issues admitting such and asking questions.

Looking forward to the education and opinions

If you have no experience with PEDs I would suggest starting with a testosterone only cycle. Test enanthate is usually a stable of choice.

1ml twice weekly. 500mg weekly total. Some opinions will differ.

If you are already in good shape I would suggest running a small amount of clenbuterol also. But I’ll let the other members give their opinions also mate

 

[hubbles]

If you have no experience with PEDs I would suggest starting with a testosterone only cycle. Test enanthate is usually a stable of choice.

1ml twice weekly. 500mg weekly total. Some opinions will differ.

If you are already in good shape I would suggest running a small amount of clenbuterol also. But I’ll let the other members give their opinions also mate

Totally agree with you @TeeGee

@Hazy1966 welcome to the forum my brother.

Side question, have you thought about doing TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy)?

About your cycle... I don't know if I had posted this before or one of the members had posted it but there is a really simple cycle that I love. And it's great for a newbie. Just like TeeGee said Testosterone Enanthate is perfect for you to start. I would only add Turinabol (Tbol) as an oral to the start of the cycle. Tbol will give you strength and gains without the water retention (dry look).

Your Cycle:

**Take Aromasin throughout the Cycle:**
Start with 12.5mg eod (every other day) and adjust if needed.

Week 1 to 12:
Testosterone Enanthate: 500mg per week (divided into two injections)
Sunday 250mg and Wednesday 250mg

Week 1-6:
Turinabol (Tbol) : 50mg per day (split the dose into 2, morning & night)

PCT:
If you start TRT, there is no need for you to do PCT. But if not, you should do something like this...

Start PCT 2 weeks after your last Testosterone injection:
Nolvadex (Tamoxifen)
Weeks 1 to 2: : 40mg daily
Weeks 3 to 4: 20mg daily

Let us know if you have any questions.

 

[TeeGee]

Totally agree with you @TeeGee

@Hazy1966 welcome to the forum my brother.

Side question, have you thought about doing TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy)?

About your cycle... I don't know if I had posted this before or one of the members had posted it but there is a really simple cycle that I love. And it's great for a newbie. Just like TeeGee said Testosterone Enanthate is perfect for you to start. I would only add Turinabol (Tbol) as an oral to the start of the cycle. Tbol will give you strength and gains without the water retention (dry look).

Your Cycle:

**Take Aromasin throughout the Cycle:**
Start with 12.5mg eod (every other day) and adjust if needed.

Week 1 to 12:
Testosterone Enanthate: 500mg per week (divided into two injections)
Sunday 250mg and Wednesday 250mg

Week 1-6:
Turinabol (Tbol) : 50mg per day (split the dose into 2, morning & night)

PCT:
If you start TRT, there is no need for you to do PCT. But if not, you should do something like this...

Start PCT 2 weeks after your last Testosterone injection:
Nolvadex (Tamoxifen)
Weeks 1 to 2: : 40mg daily
Weeks 3 to 4: 20mg daily

Let us know if you have any questions.

I’m gonna be a pain in the ass here and say that I’m in complete agreement with @hubbles on this cycle layout and this is what you should elect as your cycle. But I’m going to add a slight difference in opinion.

Disclaimer * this does not make me right and hubbles wrong. It’s just differing opinions usually due to experiences.

For me I would start your aromasin at 12.5mg 2x weekly (on injection days) I would begin eod only if you feel the need to adjust e.g lack of wood or irritated nipples.

And lastly my pct choice is clomid. It switches my body back on so much quicker than what tamoxifen has in the past. Sending the signals to the testies to begin production. *personal opinion*

But either way this cycle layout from @hubbles is spot on.

 

[hubbles]

Yeah for sure @TeeGee makes total sense. It's a personal choice with either Clomid or Tamoxiden. Either way.

I actually like your take on the Aromasin, @Hazy1966 do this... 12.5mg 2x weekly (on injection days) and just monitor if you need more.

 

[Hazy1966]

If you have no experience with PEDs I would suggest starting with a testosterone only cycle. Test enanthate is usually a stable of choice.

1ml twice weekly. 500mg weekly total. Some opinions will differ.

If you are already in good shape I would suggest running a small amount of clenbuterol also. But I’ll let the other members give their opinions also mate

Cheers, how much is a small amount of Clenbutol......or what would you recommend?

 

[TeeGee]

Cheers, how much is a small amount of Clenbutol......or what would you recommend?

Opinions will always differ on this mate. Personally for me when I’ve used clenbuterol in the past.

I’ve started with 40mcg daily for a week. Then 60mcg for a week.

I’d then give myself a week break. Then begin at 60mcg for a week and go upto 80mcg daily for the week.

Again a weeks break. I would never really go above 80mcg. I just didn’t feel the need to. I know some who like to stick with 40mcg and I’ve known people using 160mcg daily.

Everyone is different mate. Always best to start low. Test your tolerance vs results

 

[Hazy1966]

Opinions will always differ on this mate. Personally for me when I’ve used clenbuterol in the past.

I’ve started with 40mcg daily for a week. Then 60mcg for a week.

I’d then give myself a week break. Then begin at 60mcg for a week and go upto 80mcg daily for the week.

Again a weeks break. I would never really go above 80mcg. I just didn’t feel the need to. I know some who like to stick with 40mcg and I’ve known people using 160mcg daily.

Everyone is different mate. Always best to start low. Test your tolerance vs results

Thanks again for your time TeeGee,

Totally agree with your thoughts on starting slow........if I decide to go down this path. I am very timid re this!

I'm trying to work out costs and payment methods now without hassling the suppliers until I am ready to purchase.

Testosterone enanthate 250mg is $60 per vial, 500mg per week has been recommended, so I'm assuming 2 x vials per week.

clen tablets 40mcg $150 (although I don't know how many tabs in the pack)

I've heard of 6 or 12 week cycles......or even longer. What's the take ion this? Can I just easily stop when I have reached my goal body composition?

No issue with the cost either way, you must pay the price for quality / genuine product.

Do I need to install a "telegram" app to correspond and submit an order?
Is crypt the only payment method available?

Cheers again, your wise heads are a great help (and education)

 

[TeeGee]

When you state your price for your vial I’m assuming you are referring to @nexuspharma unfortunately I have not used any of their products so I can’t give you any real insight on that.

@gearmaniac101 is who I have dealt with. He is nothing but class and extremely patient and helpful. I strongly recommend him as you do seem to have some queries which can be resolved.

Now …. Test e 250mg. This is a dosage on the label per millilitre. Which means 10ml vial gives you 10 doses of 250mg.

1ml injection 2x weekly equals 500mg per week. 1 vial will last you 5 weeks total.

With your clenbuterol … @gearmaniac101 also offers liquid oral version if I’m not mistaken and my understanding of oral liquid clen is that it is a little less harsher on the kidneys due to less break down. But do not hold me to it as i have never researched it for hard evidence.

Hope this clears up a few of your questions mate.

Telegram is the way to contact @gearmaniac101 and I believe @nexuspharma is the same. Maybe some guys with experience dealing with nexus can chime in for you.

 

[Hazy1966]

When you state your price for your vial I’m assuming you are referring to @nexuspharma unfortunately I have not used any of their products so I can’t give you any real insight on that.

@gearmaniac101 is who I have dealt with. He is nothing but class and extremely patient and helpful. I strongly recommend him as you do seem to have some queries which can be resolved.

Now …. Test e 250mg. This is a dosage on the label per millilitre. Which means 10ml vial gives you 10 doses of 250mg.

1ml injection 2x weekly equals 500mg per week. 1 vial will last you 5 weeks total.

With your clenbuterol … @gearmaniac101 also offers liquid oral version if I’m not mistaken and my understanding of oral liquid clen is that it is a little less harsher on the kidneys due to less break down. But do not hold me to it as i have never researched it for hard evidence.

Hope this clears up a few of your questions mate.

Telegram is the way to contact @gearmaniac101 and I believe @nexuspharma is the same. Maybe some guys with experience dealing with nexus can chime in for you.

Awesome feedback, advice and info. Much appreciated

 

[musclemaniac]

Opinions will always differ on this mate. Personally for me when I’ve used clenbuterol in the past.

I’ve started with 40mcg daily for a week. Then 60mcg for a week.

I’d then give myself a week break. Then begin at 60mcg for a week and go upto 80mcg daily for the week.

Again a weeks break. I would never really go above 80mcg. I just didn’t feel the need to. I know some who like to stick with 40mcg and I’ve known people using 160mcg daily.

Everyone is different mate. Always best to start low. Test your tolerance vs results

Great advice right there @TeeGee .

Clen can be pretty intense, so it's very smart to ease into it. I’ve run a similar cycle in the past, starting at 20mcg, then ramped it up to around 40mcg and stayed there for a bit before pushing it to 80mcg max (that was the sweet spot for me). Staying hydrated always helps and adding taurine to avoid cramps. Clen can really deplete taurine levels. But like you said, cycling on and off is key. I was doing 2 weeks on 2 weeks off. It just keeps the effectiveness up and the side effects down.

@Hazy1966 if you start feeling jittery or getting heart palpitations best to back off a bit. No need to push it too hard.

 

[TeeGee]

Great advice right there @TeeGee .

Clen can be pretty intense, so it's very smart to ease into it. I’ve run a similar cycle in the past, starting at 20mcg, then ramped it up to around 40mcg and stayed there for a bit before pushing it to 80mcg max (that was the sweet spot for me). Staying hydrated always helps and adding taurine to avoid cramps. Clen can really deplete taurine levels. But like you said, cycling on and off is key. I was doing 2 weeks on 2 weeks off. It just keeps the effectiveness up and the side effects down.

@Hazy1966 if you start feeling jittery or getting heart palpitations best to back off a bit. No need to push it too hard.

Some solid info right here for you too mate from @musclemaniac clen can do a solid job if you implement it correctly

 

[MrThepagedog]

@Hazy1966 have you had your test levels checked at all?
Not much that hasn't been covered by Teegee, musclemaniac and Hubble's. I would personally try the test only cycle they recommend before trying clen or any test + cycles as you've said you've got diet fairly on point so better to save clen until your at a stage where you need to add it in rather than from the get go.
Things like Deca will make you hold water so not going to be great for a recomp, the only thing I'll say in deca's defense is that it makes your cycle a bit easier on the joints, not sure if that's an issue for you but something to consider if it is.
Also haven't tried @gearmaniac101 but have only heard good things, have personally used @nexuspharma and only have good things to say about them. Doesn't seem like you can go wrong with either of the sponsors of the forum.

 

[Nugget]

Thanks TeeGee, I have absolutely zero knowledge and experience with PED's. Know nothing of Deca, Dbol, fast ester, masteron etc but also have no issues admitting such and asking questions.

Looking forward to the education and opinions

Hi mate, lots of good advice here. If it were me, being a more mature gentleman, like myself I would go with the test E, but I would throw in some deca ( nandrolone decanoate ) 100mg/week will ease the joints, 200mg/week will help you hold your gains post cycle, however you still need to eat right and train hard after the cycle to maintain the muscle you built. I wouldn't worry about trying to recomp, I would build muscle, then after pct, I would cut the calories slightly, or add in cardio to get leaner. Remember though that long acting compounds like test E and deca are still going to be working for up to 4 weeks after the last injection. I would run the cycle for 12 weeks, run 500mg/week of test enanthate, 200mg/week deca. Do your pct, and then run clean when you cut as it tends to help you hold muscle and burn fat.
Once again, this is just my opinion, that's what I would do. Good luck with your journey, don't be afraid to ask more questions, the only dumb question is the one you didn't ask.