Advice on whether to Cruise or PCT

[Drekko]

Hey
I am a bit on the fence about this, and its probably at the end of the day a personal choice
I am on 350mg of Sus250 and made very good gains in size and strength.
I also feel great and confidet. No side effects expect some small pimps on shoulders
I am 42 years old and havent touched gear before this cycle for 10 years

My last cycle was over 10 years ago and coming off that I did blood tests every few months and my testostorerone came back within the normal range
Fastforward 10 years from there and now I am a Dad of 2 and have my own house with family etc
Still been working out regularly but lately struggled to make gains ( lately as few years)
SO planned to do a 12 week Sus250 cycle of 350mg per week. Prior to this I got my bloods done and to my suprised my natural test was extremly low. Like clinically low. Low enough for me not to belive the results and did 2 tests.. But same results
Results of low test before cycle are below:

Now I am at my 11th week of my cycle and the original plan was to do PCT > then if my natural test after another 12 weeks stays this low I will try to get TRT subscriptions from a doctor (legitmately ) and stay on that inbetween blasts as I dont want this low testostorone when off cycle

My bloods I got a few days ago. I also did the below blood test just before a gym session so i beleive AST and ALT should bit a little lower than that ( correct me if I am wrong)

Not sure if I should just cruise on a longer ester test myself to have stable levels of test or come off completely and see how my test goes and if its low again try to get TRT Subscriptions

 

[drgainer]

Looking at your results, the tests prior are low, no debate there and the ones after are high which lines up with the cycle. Your gym sesh absolutely could explain a big part of that AST elevation. For future if you want clean liver data, no training 4 days beforehand and no alcohol.

Now with PCT, there’s a chance you go back to around that 8 nmol/L mark. Your LH/FSH were already low and recovery at 42 isn’t same as 25. Whether you bounce back slightly higher or land in the same spot is hard to predict.

On the flip side, if you move towards TRT, that’s a longer term decision. Bloodwork, lpids, bp etc.. it becomes proper management. The choice is personal. If you want prescribed, do your PCT and get back on to the clinics for a prescription. Just keep in mind to keep your prescription you will need to time your cycles between your blood tests to keep your prescription. Hard work, but can be done.

 

[ChasetheCase]

Problem with a dr is they'll most likely send you to an endo first, in Australia they are just glorified diabetes specialists and have very crap protocols for TRT and send you through hoops for a year.

Go to a clinic and you'll be spending ~$2k a year, and most likely need blood tests every 3-4 months, meaning you can't run cycles. Primal have the longest time in between blood tests at 6 months, but they're much more expensive and you'll need to be with them a year and have stable bloods before they move you to 6 monthly blood works.

At those test levels I'd definitaly recommend TRT, the question is do you want to go down the clinic or DIY TRT route. Do you need a prescription?

 

[Drekko]

Problem with a dr is they'll most likely send you to an endo first, in Australia they are just glorified diabetes specialists and have very crap protocols for TRT and send you through hoops for a year.

Go to a clinic and you'll be spending ~$2k a year, and most likely need blood tests every 3-4 months, meaning you can't run cycles. Primal have the longest time in between blood tests at 6 months, but they're much more expensive and you'll need to be with them a year and have stable bloods before they move you to 6 monthly blood works.

At those test levels I'd definitaly recommend TRT, the question is do you want to go down the clinic or DIY TRT route. Do you need a prescription?

Well not if they are going to beat around the bush for a whole year and I'll be spending thousands extra on consultation after consultation

When I could just do this myself
I know I'm no doctor

There's a lot of info out there though. Plus the blood tests every few months or weeks to monitor

What do people usually cruise "TRT" on?
These are the long half life compounds:
Cypionate
~5–7 days
Undecanoate
~20+ days

And how often do people inject for each of those to have slightly elevated and stable test levels?

 

[Drekko]

Problem with a dr is they'll most likely send you to an endo first, in Australia they are just glorified diabetes specialists and have very crap protocols for TRT and send you through hoops for a year.

Go to a clinic and you'll be spending ~$2k a year, and most likely need blood tests every 3-4 months, meaning you can't run cycles. Primal have the longest time in between blood tests at 6 months, but they're much more expensive and you'll need to be with them a year and have stable bloods before they move you to 6 monthly blood works.

At those test levels I'd definitaly recommend TRT, the question is do you want to go down the clinic or DIY TRT route. Do you need a prescription?

Oh yes I would need a prescription because I don't have one and only found out I had low test around 12 weeks go before my blast cycle I'm finishing up shortly

 

[ChasetheCase]

Why do you need a prescription? Do you travel a lot?

You already have access to test.

Standard cookie cutter approach is 125-150mg a week of Test E split between two doses.

I spent a long time weighing up leaving my clinic and going DIY. Went DIY after almost two years with a clinic.

 

[Skays]

Everyone has their own dosage. Mine is TRT = 125mg a week and Cruise= 250mg a week. Both dosages split into 2 pins per week, usually Sun/Wed

 

[Drekko]

Why do you need a prescription? Do you travel a lot?

You already have access to test.

Standard cookie cutter approach is 125-150mg a week of Test E split between two doses.

I spent a long time weighing up leaving my clinic and going DIY. Went DIY after almost two years with a clinic.

Well its not because I cant get it or travel alot
Its because I havent been on test before long term and thought its better to get a doc to prescribe it and watch my health and levels etc

But if its pretty simple I am willing to try 125mg-150mg per week x 2 doses of test E

Ill do more research but seeing I am getting some help now can I ask these questions:

1. Why is test E the preferred one when there's, Cypionate and Undecanoate that have longer half life, therefore would require fewer injections? Wouldnt most guys go that for convience for TRT?
2. What test levels in blood tests is suitable to cruise on? Upper the normal range or slighly above? Or is again everyone personal choice and different for all? Is there a cookie "standard" TRT/Cruise number?
3. Can I ask you specifically why did you eventually stop going to the clinic and do it yourself? Cost? Convience ?

 

[ozzyboy]

Well its not because I cant get it or travel alot
Its because I havent been on test before long term and thought its better to get a doc to prescribe it and watch my health and levels etc

But if its pretty simple I am willing to try 125mg-150mg per week x 2 doses of test E

Ill do more research but seeing I am getting some help now can I ask these questions:

1. Why is test E the preferred one when there's, Cypionate and Undecanoate that have longer half life, therefore would require fewer injections? Wouldnt most guys go that for convience for TRT?
2. What test levels in blood tests is suitable to cruise on? Upper the normal range or slighly above? Or is again everyone personal choice and different for all? Is there a cookie "standard" TRT/Cruise number?
3. Can I ask you specifically why did you eventually stop going to the clinic and do it yourself? Cost? Convience ?

1.E and Cyp are basically the same thing. Pin once or twice a week and levels are stable. Undec lasts longer but it’s a pain to adjust and if something goes wrong you’re stuck with it for weeks. Most run E cause it’s easy & predictable.

2.No magic number. Most cruise high normal or a bit over. Enough to feel good and hold muscle but not so high your hematocrit and lipids go to shit. It’s personal... bloods and how you feel matter more than chasing a number.

3.I know your asking @ChasetheCase but its usually cost and control. Clinics are expensive and strict. Doing it yourself is cheaper and you control dose and blasts. Just means you’re responsible for your own bloodwork and health.

 

[ChasetheCase]

Test E/C are pretty much clinically identical. It’s just down to availability.

As for undeconate that 10-12 week protocol, with that super long ester you’re trading convienience for lack of control. E/C is much more flexible, but with more injections.

I went DIY due to cost and lack of control over my own treatment. Clinic were originally fine with me having high slightly out of normal range levels, then they wanted to drop it. Then they dropped it again, then they wanted to drop it again even though I was now in normal range and didn’t feel as good.

Also they would panic if my HCT went over 51 and would refuse treatment until I had done another test showing it being lower. Then there was the stress of having to do blood tests at specific times so I could get test and not run out. Plus waiting around all evening to have a Telehealth call, and the fact that I couldn’t run a cycle. I decided to go DIY.

Edit: Also just to add I had a dr freaking out over my e2 being out of range and wanting me to take an AI when I also had zero symptoms.

I’m currently on 200mg a week cruising. GP had me on 250mg for 6 months to start, went down to 200, 150 then they wanted to drop to 100. So quit them.

 

[ChasetheCase]

As for normal ranges, our reference ranges are totally screwed. The ranges are from unhealthy people who have been tested because they have a problem. So obviously they are lower than optimal. Also testosterone has been declining for the last 40 years due to our diet, environment, and now genetics. An 80 year old 40 years ago had higher testosterone than then upper limits of our current reference ranges.

Obviously it’s your own choice how high you sit, but just higher than the top reference range is no issue.

People also freak out over increases in HCT but that’s not an issue either. It’s a misunderstanding from old data on PV. Platelet dysfunction causes clots, not HCT. But in saying that if you have high HCT and platelet dysfunction it’s made matters worse.

 

[Drekko]

Everyone has their own dosage. Mine is TRT = 125mg a week and Cruise= 250mg a week. Both dosages split into 2 pins per week, usually Sun/Wed

Hey can I ask you what you mean by the differences of your TRT and Cruise
I was under the impression that TRT and cruise were basically the same thing

but looks like they are diifferent for you at different dosages?

 

[Drekko]

As for normal ranges, our reference ranges are totally screwed. The ranges are from unhealthy people who have been tested because they have a problem. So obviously they are lower than optimal. Also testosterone has been declining for the last 40 years due to our diet, environment, and now genetics. An 80 year old 40 years ago had higher testosterone than then upper limits of our current reference ranges.

Obviously it’s your own choice how high you sit, but just higher than the top reference range is no issue.

People also freak out over increases in HCT but that’s not an issue either. It’s a misunderstanding from old data on PV. Platelet dysfunction causes clots, not HCT. But in saying that if you have high HCT and platelet dysfunction it’s made matters worse.

Thanks such good advice man to you and everyone

I think I will just cruise / TRT it a bit for another 12 weeks or so after this cycle is done

I will also have some sus250 left over ( half a vial ) so could probably finish it off with lower dosages to start cruising/TRT on that then use Test e...

or do people advise against that?

Yeh I have seen alot of info and videos about our test declining naturally
sad reality
We are getting more unhealthy.. Too much crap in food and plastics etc
I have a cycle of PCT on hand if I ever do want to come off anyway

What I was also happy about with my pre cycle and 10th week on cycle blood test is my PCV stayed around the same. Usually it goes higher when on cycle

 

[ChasetheCase]

Your TRT is replacement, for people who have low test. It’s supposed to be the minimum dose to replace your lost testosterone which relieves symptoms.

Cruise is for people on steroids who don’t need TRT but don’t want to come off between cycles. This should ideally be the lowest dose which maintains your muscle.

However both the above have flexibility as many people feel so much better when on a higher dose which is above the standard TRT range.

As for levels there’s tribes which have had people naturally tested at over 3000! There was a Dr who was saying levels up to 1600 is very safe for most people long term. Will try and find it.

Just stay on your test, try 125-150mg a week and see how you get on after 8-12 weeks of stable bloods.

 

[Drekko]

Your TRT is replacement, for people who have low test. It’s supposed to be the minimum dose to replace your lost testosterone which relieves symptoms.

Cruise is for people on steroids who don’t need TRT but don’t want to come off between cycles. This should ideally be the lowest dose which maintains your muscle.

However both the above have flexibility as many people feel so much better when on a higher dose which is above the standard TRT range.

As for levels there’s tribes which have had people naturally tested at over 3000! There was a Dr who was saying levels up to 1600 is very safe for most people long term. Will try and find it.

Just stay on your test, try 125-150mg a week and see how you get on after 8-12 weeks of stable bloods.

Yeh I'll stay on my sus250 but it's almost finished. Then I'll switch to test E longer term

I'll aim for slightly over the normal range and see how I feel and how my blood results turn up and adjust accordingly

 

[Drekko]

Your TRT is replacement, for people who have low test. It’s supposed to be the minimum dose to replace your lost testosterone which relieves symptoms.

Cruise is for people on steroids who don’t need TRT but don’t want to come off between cycles. This should ideally be the lowest dose which maintains your muscle.

However both the above have flexibility as many people feel so much better when on a higher dose which is above the standard TRT range.

As for levels there’s tribes which have had people naturally tested at over 3000! There was a Dr who was saying levels up to 1600 is very safe for most people long term. Will try and find it.

Just stay on your test, try 125-150mg a week and see how you get on after 8-12 weeks of stable bloods.

Sorry got another question if you dont mind
How long after my last shot of my blast cycle ( 350mg per week of Sus250) should I wait untill I start my lower dosages of test? Same as before? ( which has been every other day )
Then once I run out of that ( half a vial left ) I will be using test enanthate longer term

 

[ChasetheCase]

Have a look at https://steroidplotter.com/ this will give you a good idea of transitioning to a lower dose.
If you want to drop quickly, I'd have a guess and say you could go without test for two weeks then start injecting your new dose. Or just start your new dose now and it'll just drop slower to the new baseline.

 

[Drekko]

Have a look at https://steroidplotter.com/ this will give you a good idea of transitioning to a lower dose.
If you want to drop quickly, I'd have a guess and say you could go without test for two weeks then start injecting your new dose. Or just start your new dose now and it'll just drop slower to the new baseline.

Yeh no worries thanks so much man

 

[Skays]

Hey can I ask you what you mean by the differences of your TRT and Cruise
I was under the impression that TRT and cruise were basically the same thing

but looks like they are diifferent for you at different dosages?

@ChasetheCase has answered this already. I like going on a cruise after a cycle for a few months then drop to my TRT. I like the feeling on the cruise.

 

[Drekko]

@ChasetheCase has answered this already. I like going on a cruise after a cycle for a few months then drop to my TRT. I like the feeling on the cruise.

Ah cool that makes sense